Wednesday, 23 November 2011

Osvaldo Natucci and Enriqueta Kleinman

'They dance close in London, yes, but it's not milonguero' said Enriqueta, and I think I'm beginning to get an idea of what she means. Just dancing close embrace doesn't make it milonguero. Perhaps these videos make that clearer.

Enriqueta was in London in August and there were workshops. Another porteña who speaks her mind in clear English, and has a long and close connection with tango, a lot of valuable, available experience. (Apparently porteñas have a reputation for plain speaking.)



7 comments:

Chris said...

"'They dance close in London, yes, but it's not milonguero' said Enriqueta, ... Perhaps these videos make that clearer."

One couple on the floor doing a show for camera does not seem very 'milonguero' to me.

"Enriqueta was in London in August and there were workshops.""

Workshops are even less 'milonguero'.

Perhaps Enrique is unaware that one reason for the difference she reports is precisely that Londoners learn in workshops whereas BA milongueros do not.

Nice music, though. Thanks! :)

Tangocommuter said...

One couple dancing late at night when everyone else has gone home isn't 'milonguero'? Well, OK, perhaps that wasn't the scene, but to me what matters is the quality of the dance, not the setting.

& don't you think your views on workshops are about 60 years out of date? 60 years ago, when tango was in families and kids grew up dancing and watching dance, there were no workshops, no need for them. & I agree that dancing with your teacher, now called a 'private', is the best way to learn, but not all of us can afford this luxury, and if we could there simply wouldn't be enough good teachers to go round. So for the great number of people who love social tango workshops are necessary. I was first inspired by a workshop with Ricardo Vidort, and I wouldn't want to think that un-milonguero.

& it was a lady speaking, Enriqueta, not Enrique.

jantango said...

Milongueros aren't invited to the UK to teach because of the work permit requirement, but someone must have gotten one for Enriqueta to enter the country legally for work. Milongueros need translators; Enriqueta manages English. Milongueros have danced for 50 years or more; Enriqueta for 15. I don't see any value in her workshops. Men need to learn from men.

I agree with Chris that one couple in a large space doesn't make this a milonguero demonstration. Osvaldo Natucci is going to be teaching in Chicago next April; the video is for promotion. If he's a milonguero, he's the only one I know with a university degree. Most only had a primary education and went off to work.

Chris makes another good point that workshops are even less "milonguero." No milonguero ever learned tango in classes.

That venue is the new Plaza Bohemia Tango at Alsina and Alberti run by Chiri and Milva after they were asked to move out of Maipu 444. The existing floor is too sticky for dancing, so a wooden floor was installed.

I was at Plaza Bohemia on Tuesday for Sentimental y Coqueta run by Daniel Rezk and Juan Lencina. Enriqueta was flitting about asking the men to dance during the milonga. It's a pity that a teacher who tours the USA and Europe can't share much about the codes she never practices.

Chris said...

"One couple dancing late at night when everyone else has gone home isn't 'milonguero'?

Eveyone except the traditional milonga cameraman?? :)

"& don't you think your views on workshops are about 60 years out of date?"

Like my taste in music. :)

"I agree that dancing with your teacher, now called a 'private', is the best way to learn, but not all of us can afford this luxury

Well sure you can't afford privates if you're pouring money down the workshop drain. And competence typically costs far less by privates.

"and if we could there simply wouldn't be enough good teachers to go round."

Sure there would. Because there'd be so many more real dancers to learn from. As in e.g. BA, Berlin, Paris, Rome etc.

"I was first inspired by a workshop with Ricardo Vidort, and I wouldn't want to think that un-milonguero"

Easy to say in hindsight. But at the time how could you recognise a milonguero without a milonga? As the Zen saying goes, "For every truth, there are one hundred falsehoods." And the falsehoods can afford glossier flyers...

Cinderella said...

'One couple dancing late at night when everyone else has gone home isn't 'milonguero'? Well, OK, perhaps that wasn't the scene, but to me what matters is the quality of the dance, not the setting.'

This video is clearly a show, TC. One couple dancing late at night when everyone else has gone home usually looks completely different (starting with the way they look at each other before they embrace each other). That's not only a question of 'the setting'.
Where exactly do you see the quality of dance here?

JohnM said...

I'm with Chris and Janis here.
As Janis knows I saw Enriqueta too.

I am being constantly told to hold
my right arm higher and reach further
around the woman. I already held mine
significantly higher than Osvaldo was
holding Enriqueta in the video.

Women make good practice partners but
I too have my doubts about their worth
as teachers. Men need to be men and
to be taught by men. Either that or be
a man and learn for yourself. At least
pro-actively manage your own learning.

Spending money on privates (with a man)
will cost much less than endless
classes. Surely by now you should know
enough about tango to be able to
select just one good teacher (in BsAs
preferably)?

But get maximum value by purposeful
practice in between otherwise you
would again be wasting your money and
time. It's like learning a language,
you can't learn one without hearing
and speaking it.

Chris said...

"No milonguero ever learned tango in classes."

And that's as true today as it ever was. The social dance is learned socially. Commercialised learning is for the commercial forms - show tango and class tango.

Milongueros aren't invited to the UK to teach because of the work permit requirement, but someone must have gotten one for Enriqueta to enter the country legally for work.

Some Argentine teachers work here under disguised or assumed names. I saw no adverts for Enriqueta's workshops under her real name.

And apropos that, welcome back Terpsichoral. :)